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Tracee Ellis Ross’ earliest memories involved traveling the world with her mother, Diana Ross, but it was at the age of 22 that she discovered what solo travel could give her. This episode, Lale sits down with Tracee, who on March 8 will be honored on Women Who Travel’s annual Power List, to discuss how solo travel can be an act of radical self care, her upcoming Roku show Solo Traveling With Tracee Ellis Ross, and her flamboyant and joy-filled packing lists.
Lale Arikoglu: Hi there, I'm Lale Arikoglu and welcome to this episode of Women Who Travel. Our guest, Tracee Ellis Ross, the star of Black-ish and American Fiction, has a new series on Roku coming out later this year called Tracee Travels, and it's all about discovering the world alone. I am super excited about this episode because this month Tracee is also honored on our annual Women Who Travel Power List publishing online at CNTraveler.com. This is kind of like a little teaser and you'll find the full list when it's published on March 8th, International Women's Day. Today we begin by chatting about Tracee's early introduction to global travel with her mother, Diana Ross.
I think you've described yourself once as feeling like a child of the world.
Tracee Ellis Ross: Yes.
LA: You've traveled so much and so much with your mum, Diana. What were some of those memorable early trips that stuck with you? I mean, that must have shaped your world view so much.
TER: It really did, and I come by the travel honestly. So before it was by choice, it was by necessity staying near my mom. I went to boarding school in Switzerland, so I started, I was born in Los Angeles, raised in New York, and then moved to Paris for eighth grade, Paris and then Switzerland for boarding school and then back to the States and then Brown. And when we moved to Europe, my mother ended up marrying my stepfather who is Norwegian and lived in London and Switzerland. And so London and Switzerland and Europe in general just became a part of our lives.
The benefit for me, it was like a change in world view from just being an American to realizing that I was a child of the world and so much of that came from realizing how much the same human beings are, no matter where you go. And also that what I loved so much was discovering the ways that we are different. It's just been something that I've loved about travel.
LA: Do you remember that shift of thinking? Was there a point, was it in eighth grade? Was it when you were in London that you suddenly were like, "I'm an American, but I'm starting to see things differently?"
TER: It all came through fashion.
LA: Okay, love that.
TER: It was the clothing. I loved clothes even when I was younger. I mean, there's a picture of me as a little girl wearing my mom's high heels. I'm like two years old and I'm naked wearing her heels, and I had already started playing in her closet at that point, and that kind of continued as I grew up. And so even when I was an adult woman and sort of living here in New York, it was so much finding my identity. And then when I moved to Europe, there were just different ways of putting things together. I remember there were two twins I went to on a school with in Switzerland, Java and Rosie Artizzoni, and they had the best style.
LA: I mean the names alone, so chic.
TER: Done. I mean, that's enough. So they would wear track pants with Subairga sneakers and these amazing coats. And I started to see just a completely different way of just a different version of identity in young people and that you could see culture, you could see people's legacy, history, family lives and all of those things in sort of how they clothed themselves. And it gave me a glimpse into a lot of different worlds and what different families look like and how different families configure themselves.
LA: The places that you mentioned, London, Paris, Switzerland, they all have such defined sense of style to me and so different like Paris and London ...
TER: Very different.
LA: So close to each other and so different in terms of personal style. Was there one that you connected to more than the other, or do you think that your style ended up being like an amalgamation of all of those influences?
TER: I think my style and also my soul and my personality and my interests are an amalgamation of all of the places that I've been. And I think fashion is that entrance way. It's really about people.
LA: Anyone's childhood is so formative and shapes you so much, but all of these travel experiences clearly added to that. Was there any way you went that you kind of ended up having a lifelong attachment to? There's a place that you're just like, "It's not home, but it's home." You keep having to go back to it.
TER: I'll be honest, Switzerland feels like home for me. So Switzerland, there's something about it. I'm going to school there, and then my stepfather having a home there and now my step siblings still have homes there. And we do go back as a family. I have a real sense of even just eating Gruyere cheese, even if I eat it not in Switzerland, it conjures memories, sense, smells, feelings. I remember the first cow I saw in Switzerland and thinking to myself, "Is that a dog?" And then I was like, "That's the biggest dog I've ever seen. I've never seen a dog that, oh, it's a cow. I've never seen a cow that happy. No wonder the dairy tastes so good here."
LA: I feel like that cow's living a nice European lifestyle.
TER: That is rock on cow. And then so Switzerland and then I would say Paris. I think because of the fashion, I think because I did live there, I was terrified when I lived there. It was very hard for me as a kid. I did not speak French at the time. I do speak enough French now that I can navigate and I know my way around, but when I was a kid, I found it really frightening. And there is an energy of the French that is not the warmest and most inviting at all times. It's not to say that that is the generalization because it is, but that was my experience when I lived there. But I love Paris and Switzerland.
LA: I will say from my experience in Paris, which I adore, but my attempts to speak terrible, high school French is always responded with French people just immediately speaking in English to me.
TER: Okay, so here's my problem. I have a very good accent because I lived there when I was young and I don't have the same French I used to have. And so I will speak in French and they think I'm French and they respond in French, and I'm like, "I have no idea what you said."
LA: You can create the illusion.
TER: I really can. It's the same thing with skiing. I can look like I'm an Olympic skier and I'm terrified even though I've skied all my whole life.
LA: I love how much you are talking about traveling with family and traveling with your group of friends who clearly sharing travel is important to you, but you are also a huge solo traveler.
TER: Huge.
LA: After the break, how to travel alone safely and wisely. You are back with Women Who Travel and Tracee Ellis Ross and how security when you're alone has to be top of mind. The first time you navigate a place alone is always formative, even if you've been globe-trotting with your family for years.
TER: My first solo travel trip was at 22. Solo traveling for me is not an opportunity to see the world. It is an opportunity for me to be myself in the world, to have the courage to make space for myself, honor myself, and do that out in the world in places that aren't home. And so it's less about adventure. For some people solo travel is a sense of adventure. For some people solo travel is about discovery. For me, it's about wandering and being.
LA: So a freedom really.
TER: Yeah. My life is extremely full, busy, high stakes. I ask a lot of myself. In my life there's my schedule's packed and my mind stays full and busy and what's next thing, next thing, what's the next thing? And I like to be very present in what I do. So my solo travel trips are an opportunity for me to kind of integrate what I've been doing into my sense of wholeness and my sense of being and to do that while allowing myself to follow my heart around and wear my pretty clothes in beautiful places.
LA: I mean, you've done so much now that you're even making a show about it, but I want to go back to that first trip you just mentioned where you were 22, where did you go?
TER: Yeah, so the first trip I took was to Pink Sands, a hotel in The Bahamas, and the sand was pink. It was so beautiful. I went by myself and I remember I am still friends with this person. This beautiful man was there with his girlfriend. He was gorgeous. He was much older than me. And years later he said to me, "I thought you were a kept woman," which is such a gross expression.
LA: And an old-fashioned one.
TER: It's just a gross terrible expression. But the reason I thought it was interesting is there was a sense of there's no way I could be on this trip of my own accord, paid for by myself. I was 22, I had just finished my first TV show and I don't know. It was this glorious trip and I was just busy enjoying my company. One of the things that happens when you're solo traveling and happened on that trip was it's like an experiment in, are you comfortable enough to say, "I don't know what that is. Can you tell me what that is on a menu?" Or to be uncomfortable enough to be sitting somewhere by yourself.
And I always tell people who are like, "I don't know. I could never go on a trip by myself." I say, "It might not be for you. However, one of the best ways to start is start by going to dinner by yourself. Start at five o'clock on a Tuesday, but then try going on a Friday or a Saturday night when a restaurant is full and you have to go up to the hostess or the maitre d' and say, table for one." And they're like, "Oh, just you?"
"Yeah."
"Are you waiting for someone?"
"I am not." Or you can start by going to the movies by yourself. See how that goes because you will, on a solo trip, you will have multiple table for one experiences.
LA: It's so interesting when you were describing that and also describing that trip to Pink Sands, and it reminded me of a trip that I did, which was a work trip. So often working at Condé Nast Traveler, I end up staying in these fabulous hotels by myself.
TER: Yes, that's amazing.
LA: Which is amazing. And I was sitting having dinner on my own at this beautiful hotel, and a man literally shouted across the restaurant, "You alone, why are you alone?" It's really fascinating to me how even if you start to feel comfortable with yourself, it makes other people uncomfortable.
TER: Other people. Yeah. It is interesting. I mean, I think it's an exercise in holding your own space for multiple days. And I'll tell you some of my tips that I do and use. So I have discovered through trial and error that a solo trip for me is no more than four nights. When I shift over into five nights, I start to feel like it works back on myself and I do feel lonely. And now this might change as I get older or whatever, but four days feels nourishing, it feels comfortable. My mind is not a dangerous neighborhood, whereas I flip over to the other side. And so what happens is you don't have someone to share things with, and so you're sort of holding your own experience.
And it's a really lovely exercise that I take that experience into my life and being able to not always have to have a counsel to share what's happening, what you're seeing, what you're tasting, what you're experiencing. The other tip that I have is there are some places that queer, LGBTQIA people aren't safe or black people or people of color. And so do your research to make sure that you are going somewhere that is actually going to be a nourishing experience and not where you're frightened for your safety.
LA: When you say do your research, the internet is a big and thorny place. How do you research somewhere before you go?
TER: Honestly, I do a lot of asking questions. Obviously I go in search engines and do the basics that everybody else does, but I think referral is a really wonderful place to discover. And then my other favorite thing to do is I collect in my phone a combination of saved on Instagram. I have a travel folder, I have a restaurant folder, and then I also get references. I have friends that are international and travel and love traveling. And then you go and ask people, people that either are of the same identity as you, that might have the same concerns for safety and wellbeing. There are on social media, a lot of really wonderful, some of which I use safety tips for hotel rooms, things to look for in hotel rooms, things to put under your door, ways to clean and sanitize, but also for genuine safety that I think are really good tips and tricks that you could find.
But I do think those are things people need to pay attention to and I pay attention to. I will be honest, I really like to travel high end.
LA: I mean, who doesn't?
TER: But what I like to say to people all the time is, "Look, it's not that I work harder than anybody else." I think everybody deserves luxury and there's all different versions, but the biggest version of luxury to me is a sense of serenity and peace and giving yourself a chance to not only be honored, but mostly honor yourself. And I will also say just because you are in luxurious hotels does not mean it's safe.
LA: I was about to say the same rules of thumb go, whether you're in a five-star hotel or a two-star.
TER: The same rules apply. I also am a person when I travel, I don't really do off-property much. I like to go to resorts where there is a lot to experience at the resort.
LA: What do you think viewers are going to learn from how you travel alone in the show and what do you want them to take away from it?
TER: A sense of what it would be like to know yourself and have the courage to be that person by yourself out in the world, and perhaps give a springboard for what that would look like for you.
LA: Tracee shares her bucket list with me, and many of our choices overlap after this short pause. Back with Tracee Ellis Ross and her future travel plans and dreams.
TER: I still have never been to Japan, which is insane and ridiculous. I've been to Spain now. I've never been to New Zealand or Australia. I've been a lot of places, but those are some places I haven't been that I'm dying to go to.
LA: I was going to wrap up with getting you to tell me your bucket list places, but you just did it for me because clearly you are itching for them.
TER: I am itching for Japan.
LA: Oh my God.
TER: Everyone I know that has been there is like you. I'm not going to want to come home.
LA: I went, oh my God. It was 2018 now it feels very recent. It was magical, magical trip.
TER: So I look forward to that. Bali. I spent some really nice time there while I was in college, and I loved Indonesia. What are some of the other places I've just loved? I loved Manila.
LA: Oh, I'm desperate to go to Manila.
TER: I love Manila.
LA: I've heard amazing things about Manila.
TER: Yes.
LA: And a big, big party town. People know how to have a good time there. At least I've heard.
TER: I didn't party there. I didn't party there. I'm dying to go to Senegal. I'm dying to go to Senegal.
LA: Me too. Me too.
TER: Yeah. I've said some of my favorite go-to home spots like Switzerland and Paris. I do love London.
LA: I think you've given me a pretty fabulous list. And I'm glad we have some crossover because Senegal is really up there for me.
TER: I am dying to go to Senegal.
LA: You clearly are a meticulous planner. You've kind of been on the record saying that you are. How much do you leave to a chance or a little bit of impulse, or are you going in with a spreadsheet where every minute of the day is planned?
TER: I do not plan.
LA: Oh, okay.
TER: No, what I don't leave to chance is that I might want for something that I did not pack. Those people who travel with a roller bag are hilarious to me. They are like aliens from another time, another planet. I am a self-proclaimed over packer, and when I say that, I don't mean like, oh, I've got three luggage. It'll be like eight. It's so stupid, and I'm so grateful.
LA: I'm imagining amazing, beautiful trunks lined up behind you.
TER: Sure. Do you remember the movie, the original Sabrina with Audrey Hepburn?
LA: Yes. Yes.
TER: I thought that's how you're just supposed to travel.
LA: That's normal. You bring everything.
TER: You bring everything, everything you've never worn, everything you dream of wearing, everything you want to wear. I mean, one of the things for me about that is in my life as an actress, I'm always wearing other people's clothes and I love clothes. So it's one of the things that I bring to my trips and my travel is to wear beautiful outfits and beautiful clothes in beautiful places is just something that really fills my cup and makes my heart sing. But in terms of planning, when I'm go somewhere, no. What I love are beautiful dinners, beautiful lunches, so going places for beautiful meals. I love to go to a beautiful cocktail bar. I love going to museums and wandering about, and then I just love walking through the streets.
LA: You have already shared so many tips. We should talk about the show.
TER: Yeah, we should.
LA: The whole reason why we're talking about solo travel.
TER: Absolutely.
LA: Travel is fun.
TER: It's fun. It's awkward. Sometimes it doesn't go as you plan. Sometimes you get there and you're like, "I hate this. Why am I here by myself." You know what I mean? There's all these things that happen. I mean, it was interesting because the big puzzle to figure out is how do you film being alone when you're not alone?
LA: I was wondering that because ...
TER: Yeah, so a lot of it was filmed on my phone of me in my private moments talking through what is usually going on in my mind. So it was an interesting experience. I hope that what is shared is it's okay for it to not be perfect. It's okay for the experience to be a mixed bag. It's okay for you to discover things about yourself, to have both the glorious feelings of discovery and beauty, and also have moments of loneliness and discomfort and awkwardness. And it's wonderful to do those things in an environment that you're not used to.
LA: Is there an experience from when you were filming the show that's really stayed with you?
TER: Well, I got food poisoning.
LA: Oh, know that experience well.
TER: Not what I expected.
LA: Had a dicey moment in Marrakesh recently.
TER: Yeah. You know what I mean? These things come up. I actually don't even know where that situation occurred, but by the time I arrived somewhere, it wasn't pretty at all. And when you're by yourself, I mean these things are uncomfortable. It's bad enough when you're by yourself having food poisoning at home. When you're abroad, you're just like, "I want to go home."
LA: Yeah. It's like, I don't like this anymore. I'm lonely.
TER: I'm lonely, yeah. But that's another thing. And I don't know, there's something like, it strengthens you. You gain a new muscle that teaches you that you're fine. It also teaches you who it is that is safe for you to call, and who's going to be the person that's going to talk you through those moments when you're on your own. And did you bring a medical bag that has the right things in it? Because that's something I pack. I have all the things for the change of weather and the unexpected nausea.
LA: Clearly, you're a good packer. You're bringing in all your meds and God knows what else one might need when you're traveling.
TER: Oh yeah.
LA: But you love fashion so much. And I'm assuming there's some really good clothes in the show as well.
TER: Oh yes. That's number three. So we said I want people to discover for themselves what it feels like, looks like, and who they are and what they would want from being out in the world and traveling, where they would want to go. I want people to laugh and giggle, and I really want people to just enjoy the clothes. And the fun part was it's all my clothes. I didn't have hair and makeup with me. I didn't have a stylist put my clothes together. It was me. We record me packing with phones. You see me in my home packing, and I kind of talk through what that process is for me, what's important to me about packing, putting together looks, and then you get to see the cute looks.
LA: When you're packing for a place. God, this feels like it could be another episode. How much are you getting inspired by the place that you're going to when you're packing? Not in terms of weather, but the vibe and the feel and the style of that place? Or is it you, you, and you the whole time?
TER: It's me, me, and me. However, the thing that I do keep in mind. For example, I did some research going to Marrakesh because I didn't know culturally did I need to cover my shoulders. I remember the first time I went to Rome as a child that I was going to go into churches and that it was respectful to cover my shoulders and things of that nature. So I really like to be respectful to a culture. I don't want to be disrespectful inadvertently.
LA: You do so much with beauty and self-care in your work. But I am interested to know whether you think that the act of solo travel and traveling for yourself is self-care.
TER: I do. I think learning how to honor yourself is something that culturally we're not necessarily trained to do or taught to do. I think how to discover delight and joy for yourself, particularly as women and as a black woman, is quite revolutionary and really important. The sense of pleasure and delight and joy to be able to curate and articulate, and it's a very important part of my life. It's how I fill my well, it is a spiritual practice of sorts. And even discover new ways of being or doing or living or seeing is incredibly important. And I think life is made up of experiences.
And it's so interesting. My sister, all of my siblings are incredible parents. I don't have children and they're really incredible parents. And we were raised by an incredible parent. My mother raised us beautifully, but I watched them offer their children so many experiences. And there are opportunities for their kids to discover what they like, what they don't like, what feels good, what doesn't feel good, how to articulate what feels good and doesn't feel good to them. And that allows them space to find their own sense of self. And so as an adult, I get to offer myself those experiences. And I really do invite people to offer the experience of travel and transporting themselves elsewhere as an opportunity to honor who you are and discover who you might not know you are, but could be.
LA: Thank you so much.
TER: That was so fun.
LA: You can read about Tracee on the Women Who Travel Power List, which spotlights the big names shaping how we travel and talk about travel, and find out who else made the list on March 8th. Thank you for listening to Women Who Travel. I'm Lale Arikoglu and you can find me on Instagram @lalehannah. Our engineer is Pran Bandi. And special thanks to Jake Loomis for engineering support. Our show is mixed by Ammar Lal at Macrosound. Jude Kampfner is our producer, Stephanie Kariuki, our executive producer, and Chris Bannon is head of Condé Nast Global Audio.