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Polycurious? Or perhaps you’re simply curious to know more about the word polyamory? We’ve got you covered with a special Valentine’s Day episode dedicated to everything from traveling polycules and triads to advice on how to open up your relationship on the road for the first time—all courtesy of journalist Anna Silman, senior features reporter at Business Insider, who joins Lale in the studio.
Lale Arikoglu: Hi, there. I'm Lale Arikoglu. It's Valentine's Day this week, and it's a time where romance is being thrown at us in all these syrupy, very traditional ways. It's a little bit boring, so we're going to explore a growing trend. It's polyamory and how it relates to travel. With me is my friend and journalist, Anna Silman.
Anna wrote a piece with Business Insider about the 2020 book Polysecure, which has become, in her words, the new poly bible. And in that research, she dove into the world of polyamory. So, how do non-monogamous relationships vacation?
What got you interested in polyamory? Because I feel like it's a word that, obviously, I've always known about, but it's getting thrown around a lot right now.
Anna Silman: Yeah. I think that polyamory, or consensual non-monogamy, whatever you want to call it, has been in the zeitgeist a lot. There was a big New York magazine cover story. There was a New York Times story about a 20-person polycule. It was on Succession, The White Lotus, Riverdale, From Couple to Throuple, which is a crazy reality show that I've never seen but sounds interesting.
It's something people are talking about a lot. People are just more interested in exploring non-conventional ways of being in relationships, being in community. And at the same time, in my own social life, I was seeing a lot of friends who were feeling like the traditional model of heteronormative dating and coupling wasn't serving them, which didn't necessarily mean everyone was suddenly in a big polycule and had five boyfriends or whatever it may be, but-
LA: Not everyone was in the 20-person polycule.
AS: Only 20. But seeing more people who were kind of opening their marriages. Often in couples where one of the partners was queer and the other was straight, that, I think, was a gateway for a lot of people to kind of open their relationships a bit, seeing more people kind of engaging in threesomes. And I think it was just really in the ether, and it made me want to dig into it more.
LA: Travel is this kind of gateway drug to openness, and freedom, and finding a new sense of self when it's in its best form. And also, you give yourself license to experiment, I think, when you're traveling in ways that you might not when you're at home and in the familiarity of everyday life. Can travel add something to the choice of polyamory that day-to-day life doesn't? Do you think it allows people to entertain the idea of dipping their toes in a bit more?
AS: Totally. I mean, I think the first time I ever heard about or saw polyamory in action, although we wouldn't have called it that, was when you're in college and you're in a relationship, and then someone's going away for the summer or going to Europe for the summer, going to Southeast Asia, and then they are open while they're away. That is something that a lot of people have experienced, the idea that when you're traveling, the normal rules don't apply. And I think that can be very freeing because travel allows you to be a different person. It is this space of freedom, exploration away from your community and all the sort of social rules and judgments that come along with it.
One expert I spoke to when I was researching this said that he thinks a big gateway into polyamory for a lot of people is the increased widespread acceptance of bisexuality. Because for a lot of people, it's the fact that they're bisexual that initially causes them to bring up to their partner that they might want to have additional sexual or romantic experiences.
From reading Polysecure, a lot of the people I spoke to were not in non-monogamous relationships, people who were fans of the book. I spoke to one friend, and she's been in very traditional heterosexual partnerships. But, she said the book was really freeing and empowering because it helped her think of the world in less of a couple-centric way, helped her think more about the importance of communication and boundaries and all these things.
There is a lot you can learn from thinking more intentionally about your relationships and really nurturing them. I mean, in polyamory, you have to do work on your relationships. You have to communicate. You have to check in with people. You have to kind of always be negotiating terms. It's a lot of work. And I think sometimes with other relationships we kind of default to not doing relationship maintenance, just kind of keeping things on autopilot.
Polysecure, basically, it looks at relationships, particularly polyamorous relationships, through the lens of attachment styles, so basically how you can have functional, healthy relationships with multiple partners by looking at the way you and these partners attach.
It has this very distinctive yellow cover, and there was a tweet that... It was like a stoop sale of a cardboard box, and there were two copies of Polysecure in it, and the caption was like, "Wishing them the best," or something. Can't remember exactly what it was. But anyway, it's become a meme.
And of course, you have books like All Fours by Miranda July and More by Molly Roden Winter. A lot of women, I think, talk about trying to self-actualize and figure out what they want that diverts from what we've historically been told women want.
LA: Actually talk about All Fours a bit more because I feel like it was one of the books, in particularly literary circles in 2024. Won a ton of awards, nominations. And it is about a woman in midlife taking a road trip, in its simplest terms, and then, I guess, experimenting and kind of tearing up her life, so to speak. I'm going to admit that I found some of it really hard to read, and I don't know how much of that was my own limitations in terms of what I see as possible in terms of women's pleasure. What did you find hard to read about it?
AS: I think there was so much rage in it, and there were scenes that are really graphically written. I think a lot of people feel that way. It's a very sort of... The protagonist is quite a sort of brittle, difficult character, and she's laying out a lot of sort of ugly, complicated thoughts that I think women have been told we're not supposed to think. You're not supposed to think, "Oh, what if I..." Now I'm going to spoil All Fours. "What if I cheat on my husband with a bright dancer?" Whatever, but-
LA: Which I feel like happens early on. To spell out the sort of beginning of the plot, it's like she goes on this road trip that's supposed to be across America. She stops in a motel within 45 minutes.
AS: Yeah. As a woman who travels, she didn't actually get very far.
LA: She doesn't get very far.
AS: Yeah.
LA: And then she starts to explore-
AS: Yes.
LA: ... in this motel.
AS: Yeah.
LA: And I think maybe that it was the claustrophobia of the motel.
AS: Yeah. Yeah. Well, because you were like, "Why not do it in the Four Seasons if you're going to..."
LA: Well, I mean, we're Condé Nast Traveler, babes.
AS: Exactly.
LA: Back to your own reporting. You've been sort of identifying so much of this in your own social circles and in pop culture and just the sort of wider zeitgeist. I think in White Lotus, it was the characters in season two, Cameron and Daphne who... I feel like the show makes it very vague as to the terms of their relationship, but it's sort of suggested through various things that happen that they are open, somewhat. How consensual that openness I think is up for debate.
AS: Yes.
LA: Very much so. What have you been seeing in pop culture, and how do you think that's been changing it? And I bring up White Lotus, obviously, because it's in this fabulous location and it is in the setting of travel. I mean, we can get into that later about how that plays the escapism of travel complaint into experimenting with being poly.
AS: Yeah. I mean, I think it's just showing up in pop culture a lot more, but then there's... Like the show Couples Therapy, they had a triad on last season.
You know, know polyamory, it can kind of feel like a very sort of scary, foreign concept. But if you actually just think about it as the idea that you can have multiple meaningful relationships and connections, like... I think we all do that. With friendships, we all have meaningful friendships that require emotional intimacy and labor and the worldview that love is infinite and you can give of yourself to many people. Whether that be sexually or not, emotionally or not is kind of cool.
LA: We're going to talk about more poly relationships and travel after the break. I'm back with Women Who Travel and journalist AS. We're looking at the trend of polyamory.
You know, there's been these common anecdotes of swingers hooking up at Sandals. I've heard stories about pineapples being hung on the doors of cruise cabins to show people are open to hooking up. How has it evolved?
AS: Yeah. I mean, I think there are these kinds of what we think of as sort of more old school like insignias. Like, as you said, the upside down pineapple is something that people would put on the door of their cruise cabins if they were open to swinging. I think that's maybe kind of a boomer way to do it.
When I was talking to people kind of our age, I mean, I think it, like everything now, is through dating apps. There's a dating app called Feeld, which is kind of the polyamory dating app. Also on apps like Hinge, you can set your profile to be only looking for people who are looking for non-monogamy. So I think in the way that maybe you used to hang a pineapple on the door to signify your openness, now it's much easier because you can just go into your phone and say, "I'm in London. I'm partnered, but I'm open. And what's up?"
LA: Which is something we've talked about on this podcast before when it comes to dating, is using apps and changing your location when you get to a certain place to see what's out there. Especially if you're traveling alone, it is a way to meet people and kind of have that bit of socialness on a trip.
AS: And I think it's a way to get a sense of the demographics of the city you're in. When you're in Colorado and you look at Feeld, it's a lot of couples in canoes and in hiking gear is what I've heard. And it's kind of this nice window into who is kind of living experimentally in any given place.
LA: And access. Meeting people opens up to all sorts of experiences, not necessarily just the ones you're having with them, but where you meet up, the party might end up going to, the people you meet through them, it sort of gives you this really interesting entry point to a place that you wouldn't have as a tourist if you weren't using an app to connect with people that way.
AS: Yeah. And I think for travel, often you're just looking to make a connection, or to meet someone, or to have fun, have a fun weekend, have a fun couple of weeks. And apps like Feeld, which aren't traditional dating apps, create an opportunity to do that.
LA: How long has Feeld been around?
AS: Feeld used to be known as Thrinder.
LA: Oh, stop.
AS: And launched in 2014. But at some point, its name got changed to Feeld. And now it's quite popular.
LA: And they went from Thrinder to Feeld spelt F-E-E-L-D.
AS: I think there are more places that are offering kind of polyamorous retreats and getaways. I don't think it's mainstream yet. But if you Google, you'll find trips to Colorado, trips to California, trips to Mexico that are designed for polyamorous people. Maybe it's a good time for some startups to innovate on that.
LA: I'm assuming Airbnb and Booking.com don't have settings on that.
AS: I think generally polyamory is still a fringe lifestyle. We live in a very couple-centric, heteronormative world still. That's changing a bit. But, yeah. I mean, I think one of the challenging things about choosing to have a polyamorous, nonconventional relationship is that you are going to have points of friction when you're traveling. There are going to be logistical hurdles to overcome. Places are not set up for more than two traditionally. And I think lots of polyamorous people are being very creative in terms of Airbnbs instead of hotels, trips to festivals or places that are more free.
LA: And I suppose in that respect, it's like we've never had so many options of places to stay and to kind of cater to our needs. And so in that respect, there might not be accommodations that are openly saying, "This is a safe space," but you can kind of find and build your safe space when you are traveling.
AS: Yeah, exactly. I think that just as travel is becoming more bespoke, relationships are becoming more bespoke.
LA: Okay. So you've got your app. You are connecting with people, meeting people. But if you're already traveling with someone, or I guess maybe you don't want to use an app, how do you find somewhere to stay?
AS: I think there are spaces that are just more sexually fluid and experimental places, like music festivals, yoga retreats, like Burning Man. Sorry to [inaudible 00:15:46].
LA: It's like you actually do have to fall into the tropes.
AS: Yeah. And I think a common complaint of people who are in the polyamorous lifestyle is like, "Oh, my God. Everyone here is like a Burner."
LA: You're like, "I have to go to Burning Man and spend a week in the desert."
AS: Yeah. Please, no. But, I think the reason that apps and things like that are so great is because you can be really explicit about what you want, which you kind of need to do when you're doing something that isn't very normative or traditional.
LA: You mentioned the 20-person Polycule right up at the top, and I'm imagining some sort of troop of partners going to somewhere like Glastonbury. And you know, I know that you're looking at all this from the perspective of a journalist, so whether or not you actually are equipped to answer this question, I'm not sure. But, have you seen sort of how people are traveling as Polycules? Are there logistics? How are people choosing places to go? Is it rocking up at a music festival and being like, "We're all going to do shrooms and let loose for the weekend?"
AS: I mean, I think anyone who goes to a music festival with their friend group might inadvertently find themselves in a polycule, whether they want to or not. No, but I mean-
LA: I have heard a story about a drum circle at Glastonbury where that did happen to one of my friends.
AS: Yeah. I mean, God, once the lights go out at these places... But, no. I mean, I think the thing that I've heard about from people and read about more is people in throuples, that tends to be the most common configuration. And of course, that can present logistical issues. If you're flying, Delta only gives you one companion pass. Hotel rooms, you can fit three people into a king bed, but... You know, logistically, yeah, I mean I think you have to be flexible. People figure it out.
LA: That's such a good point that you make about how the world is so structured around couples and thinking of if you're traveling alone, there's the single person supplement. Whereas if you are on a cruise or in certain resorts, you end up having to pay the price that two people would because they don't even accommodate one person in a room or a cabin.
And then I'm thinking of how a hotel room is laid out. And if there were three or four of you and there's one bed, it's like, what happens? You have to have a cot put at the end of the bed? And do you toss a coin as to who ends up in there?
AS: Yeah. I mean, exactly. And I think that a lot of people have had the experience of being single on a vacation where everyone else is a couple and how difficult that is. And I think just an awareness of how the world and how travel is set up with couples in mind is interesting and something that... Yeah.
LA: God. Now, I'm thinking about weddings and how you always just get a plus-one. Anyway, that could be a whole other episode.
It's not always easy to pull off, and we'll be talking about some of the more logistical challenges after the break.
The emotional fallout and the experiments that maybe fail. You're back with Women Who Travel and my guest, journalist AS.
I keep thinking about all of the tensions that come with a group trip, even when people aren't sleeping together. And I was wondering if you had, through your reporting, heard any stories about group dynamics or group trips that had not necessarily gone awry, but maybe hadn't gone as planned or hadn't gone as foreseen?
AS: I think more often what's likely to happen is, say, you are to go on a trip as a triad where all three of you are in some sort of romantic relationship. I mean, three is a complicated number to travel in. And if two of the partners want to stay out late and one of them wants to get up early and hike, then that's a conflict. If two people want to eat at a certain restaurant and one person doesn't, that's a conflict. And travel is kind of this powder keg that puts all this strain on existing dynamics. And I think especially if you're in a group of more than two, that can be really complicated.
Something that people say in the polyamory community is that love is infinite, but time and resources are not. It's the belief that you can love and be attracted to many people at once, but we do not have unlimited time, or money, or resources to go on unlimited luxury vacations, as much as we might want that.
So, say you're in an open marriage and you choose to go on a luxury vacation with your boyfriend and not your husband. That's a difficult thing because you are making a choice to spend that time and that money and have those experiences with one person over another. There can, obviously, be jealousy. And often that jealousy comes when one partner feels like they're not being prioritized or their needs aren't being met. And obviously, I think travel can be a real trigger for that because it's a very special experience and you just have FOMO, right?
LA: Yes. On a very basic level, you just want to be included.
AS: Yeah. And I think there's this term in polyamory, which is compersion, which is being happy for your partner if they're in love, ability to feel happiness for them. And I think that can be extra difficult if it's happening during something really fun that you're missing out on.
LA: That word compersion-
AS: Yes.
LA: ... which I still can't quite wrap my head around.
AS: Yeah. Tough one.
LA: It's learning how to be happy for the partner who is.
AS: Yeah. It's like a feeling of happiness or joy that you feel as a result of seeing your partner feeling love for someone else.
LA: But that is holding people to such a high emotional standard.
AS: Yeah. It's like the opposite of schadenfreude. Yeah. It can sound pretty idealistic.
LA: It's very different if one person in the relationship is stuck at home and another person is off in some beautiful, exciting place, sharing those experiences with someone else that you might never be able to relate to or connect to because you just haven't gone and done it.
AS: Yeah. And I heard that come up with people I spoke to when I was writing about it. One person I spoke to was upset because the man she was dating went on a trip to The Bahamas with another girlfriend on their anniversary. Because travel is so special and it's such a milestone, such a bonding experience, I think it can bring up a lot of difficult feelings and questions in any relationship. I think also, travel is a major stressor. There's a lot of logistics to navigate. There's a lot of money being spent. Things can go wrong.
LA: It's sort of like moving in with someone. You never actually know how well you gel until you've traveled together.
AS: Exactly. And that complexity is compounded when you are traveling with someone who isn't your primary partner or whether you are traveling with someone and you have another relationship back home that you're also having to tend to. Distance is a stressor, and it makes communication more difficult and more necessary.
LA: And you're having to... Kind of thinking the scenario as you were just describing. You have to be communicating on the ground and in person with the partner you're with, and also making sure to communicate with the person who's back at home or multiple people who are back at home. I'm historically a terrible person when it comes to calling people. I'm terrible at talking on the phone. And something I always feel I should be better at is communicating to people that I care about where I am and what I'm doing when I'm on the opposite side of the world.
AS: Yeah. I mean, if someone feels a lot safer when they know what's going on, at least you can communicate and try to give them that. And if someone prefers not to be told, you can be conscientious about not posting too much or posting on social media too much. I think the key to a successful polyamorous relationship is just knowing your partner's needs and how to meet them.
I also think one thing about vacation is if you have kids, it can be a way to get away from the kids and have this kind of alternate lifestyle that they're not privy to. So, I spoke to people where they're kind of multiple adults raising kids together and having three adults looking after a kid is great because one person can stay with the kid and then the two adults can kind of go off together and have a trip. Yeah, I mean, that's a benefit of polyamory that-
LA: More childcare.
AS: More childcare.
LA: Great.
AS: Great.
LA: We're done.
AS: Great. If it's not garbled, it might be worth keeping in the part where I say, "I'm talking mostly about open marriages because that's what I know, but people do lots of different things," just because otherwise you're going to get people being like, "That's not what Polyamory..."
LA: Yeah. No, I think that's worth keeping in.
AS: The polyamorous community has a lot of opinions.
LA: A lot of things to say
AS: Yeah.
LA: Do you have a memorable travel adventure or a topic you'd like us to pursue? Or maybe it's a response to an episode. Or perhaps you like traveling alone or planning an adventure in the outdoors and would like some advice. Write to WomenWhoTravel@cntraveller.com.
Thank you for listening to Women Who Travel. I'm LA, and you can find me on Instagram @lalehannah. Our engineer is Pran Bandi. And special thanks to Jake Lummus for engineering support. Our show is mixed by Amar Lal at Macro Sound. Jude Kampfner is our producer, Stephanie Kariuki our executive producer, and Chris Bannon is head of Condé Nast Global Audio.