All products featured on Condé Nast Traveler are independently selected by our editors. However, when you buy something through our retail links, we may earn an affiliate commission.
You can listen to our podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify each week. Follow this link if you're listening on Apple News.
Following the release of Condé Nast Traveler's annual Women Who Travel Power List, spotlighting 15 leaders in design, activism, food, storytelling, and pop culture, Lale and fellow editor Megan Spurrell get together in the studio to chat about how they shaped the list, the ways its guiding their travel decisions, and ask the question: How should we use our power, once we have it?
Lale Arikoglu: Hi there, I'm Lale Arikoglu, and welcome to an episode of Women Who Travel. This week we're celebrating the publication of our 2024 Women Who Travel power list, we spotlight 15 women across fields like film, music, activism and food, and shaping how we travel and think about travel today. These women are offering unique insights from so many different angles and life experiences. To help me dive in and go behind the scenes of the making of the list is senior editor Megan Spurrell, a repeat podcast guest, my dear, dear colleague, a South America expert and truly intrinsic in putting this project together, there were many reasons why I was looking forward to this chat. Well, happy Women's History Month, Megan.
Megan Spurrell: My gosh, thank you, I forgot there was a whole month.
LA: But we're here today to chat about our annual Women Who Travel power list, which I think the two of us have put no tears, but a lot of blood and sweat into this year and last year.
MS: A lot of hours.
LA: A lot of hours, a lot of collaboration, a lot of moving parts, and I did. Before we start talking about the list, I wanted to honor our hard work, and Megan and I have worked together-
MS: I can't wait to see where this is going, I'm fiddling.
LA: ... You are getting a present basically, just a little something to acknowledge you for all your work on this list.
MS: A present, is it something that's going to make me cry?
LA: No, I'm actually interested to know what your response is going to be, and this has been a running joke that we've had for a very long time.
MS: Wait, is this real? Where did this come from? Wait.
LA: I didn't realize it needed to be assembled, so when we were going to the loo on the way down to the studio, I bustled off into the cubicle with my bag because I needed to put it together.
MS: Is that why you were like, "I'm going to bring my whole bag down?"
LA: Yes.
MS: Well, that's efficient.
LA: This gift that I'm handing Megan right now is very symbolic of our work together. When Megan first joined Traveler and we were really at the beginning of starting the Women Who Travel universe, Megan immediately raised her hand and was like, "I want to get involved in this crazy enterprise."
MS: I'm going to cry.
LA: When Megan started, one of the first things she did was write an advice column and we always joked that we needed one of those lip phones so Megan can take calls from all of our travelers that needed her guidance and her help. So I finally got, here's your lip phone.
MS: I can't tell you where my brain went when you were starting to pull it out, and what I thought it might be, this is the best possible scenario.
LA: I'm so pleased.
MS: Thank you.
LA: There were lots of different color options, but I thought we had to go for the classic red.
MS: It's perfect, it's the only one.
LA: The '80s red lips.
MS: I'm going to be insufferable in the office and honestly, we might need to bring the advice column back just so I can use it.
LA: I also think we should figure out if we can set it up so that it actually rings at your desk.
MS: Should I just get a landline, it'd be worth it.
LA: I don't think I've ever seen someone use one of these landline phones.
MS: You have to picture someone in a nightgown or a satin slip laying on her stomach on her bed, holding the phone, feet are kicking in the air and she's gossiping or planning her night out.
LA: This is a gossip phone.
MS: Yeah, I can't believe I have one, this is such a long time coming, this is so perfect.
LA: Megan used to be the Women Who Travel advice columnists back in the day, dishing out all sorts of tips and guidance to our readers, including one woman who, like me, felt like her identity was tightly wound up in her travels and was losing her sense of self as a result of COVID lockdowns.
MS: We let people write in, ask us their questions, anything about travel, so it could be tips for traveling with a friend who has anxiety. There was one that got big reactions, it was about someone wrote in who doesn't have sex on vacation anymore because it only takes family trips and they really wanted some tips for that.
LA: There was one about how to handle finances if you are traveling with a group of friends who earn more than you, I remember that one I felt relatable for a lot of people and we had some great solo travel advice. Also, I think one about navigating travel with a partner who maybe travels differently from you or doesn't like travel, it really run the gamut, I thought.
At a certain point, I had to stop distracting Megan with my dumb gift and actually talk about the list. Talking about women who travel community, the power list really is a moment to acknowledge some of the leaders of that community, people who are driving the conversation, are shaping it in some way, just explain a little bit what this list is and why we're so excited about it this year?
MS: We describe it in a few different ways, but it's the women who are driving the way we think about travel right now, so they're creating interesting conversations. It's like when I think about I'm at a dinner party with my friends who don't work in the travel industry, but love to travel, the women I want to be like, have you heard of this cool fashion brand from Brazil? Or have you heard about this new wildlife show hosted by a woman? They're the people I want to bring up at a party and talk about, it's actually really exciting even if you aren't in the industry like we are. So that's how I describe the power list, it's like these women who are taking it the direction that I want it to go that make me excited about how travel's evolving.
LA: Often when you think of some list of change makers or powerful people in an industry, you think of it very much as people in a corner office, it's CEOs, it's the suits that are the ones who are in control of a space, but that's not what this list is.
MS: It's not just CEOs of travel companies, it is people who work in fashion that brings us culture from another part of the world or they make the clothes we want to wear on vacation. It is women who are directing movies and TV shows that represent or encapsulate a third culture experience or an immigrant experience or any other type of travel. So I think it's not industry, it's women who come at travel from all these different angles, which I also think is so relevant to how we think about the act of travel in general, it's everything, it's food, it's music, it's all this stuff, it's not just the airports and the packing your bag.
LA: Unless you are actually working on a magazine, no one knows what actually goes into creating these lists, it's not just throwing spaghetti at a wall and seeing what sticks.
MS: I wish it were.
LA: I know, right? There's a long process and we started working on this really, I'd say September, October, was probably when we first started having conversations about it and now we're in March.
MS: Like so many things we work on, we start brainstorming and we try and figure out what is the list trying to say about travel right now? And we see who jumps out and who's really making a difference, and again, those people that we want to bring up and talk about with other people in the industry, the people who inspire us to think differently about the work we're doing, but it's like who's really changing stuff.
LA: We had multiple women with travel shows last year, we had Padma Lakshmi and we had Eva Longoria who had just released her version of Stanley Tucci's Italy travel show focused on Mexico with CNN. Both of those shows have been very well received and were very immersive and exciting to see these women. For a little bit of context, anyone who likes watching travel shows has probably noticed that it's often men who are presenting them, it's a very, very hard space for anyone really who's not a white man, I would say, to break into and also get their shows renewed. And something that was very noticeable to me when we were crafting this list was that there wasn't an Eva or a Padma this year, but we did have Rae Wynn-Grant.
Rae Wynn-Grant: Today we're going to talk about apex predators, but we're starting at a place that you wouldn't normally expect to find large carnivores roaming around right in the heart of Los Angeles. Griffith Park is this famous urban park in LA, so picture sprawling hills covered in trees and shrubs, just an island of greenery surrounded by freeways and nestled in these hills is the iconic Hollywood sign and all around it are wilderness areas where you'll find native wild animals roaming around, including this one particular mountain lion.
LA: That was from Going Wild with Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant, and the enthralling episode is called, The Untold Story of California's Mighty Predator. She'll be appearing on the podcast in a few weeks. Coming up, a designer bringing Brazil to our closets and even the ski slopes. Another big talking point in the context of women in travel is solo travel-
MS: Always.
LA: ... This is not a new trend, women have always somewhere in the world been traveling, but they haven't necessarily had control of that narrative, the issue of safety comes up time and time again, and that means something different for different women and it can feel prohibitive and it can feel scary for a lot of people, and daunting, like where do you start? Even just the idea of eating in a restaurant alone if you've never done it before can seem like a mountain to climb. And one woman that's on this list who I think is a wonderful example of where you begin and who you can become as a solo traveler is Charlotte Simpson.
MS: Our favorite.
LA: Our favorite Charlotte who has been on this podcast a few years ago.
MS: She's a great definition of power, she has just taken her life after her husband passed away who she used to travel with. She's taken her retirement and her time and her travels into her own hands, she's doing all these things, she's going to every corner of the world, traveling alone, sometimes traveling with her kids or friends, but she's an Instagram influencer and that's what I want to see when I open my phone. I want to see where's Charlotte? What is she doing right now? Because it makes me realize how much more there is ahead that I can't wait to get to.
LA: Well, and I think also just what a joy to see a content creator and an influencer, because she is, not be 25 years old, 35 years old, someone who actually has life experience and is seeing the world in a different way. And the fact that she's traveling under this Instagram handle, @travelingblackwidow, she's owning her life's history and using it as the driving force for how she travels now. Charlotte is so glam, she's always dressed up when she's out in the world, no matter where she is. I think if there was anyone who had a lip phone in their house-
MS: It's Charlotte.
LA: ... It was probably Charlotte back in the day.
MS: Well, I was going to say, and I just pulled up some photos to confirm, she always has a red lip, in my head, she's always got her jewelry matching and she has a red lip and I'm confirming if she does do the red lipstick on hiking among Redwoods, exploring cities, she is in Croatia here at the Waterfalls, she looks good wherever she is.
LA: Which I love because I think both of us are quite relatively intrepid adventurers travelers at this point, we've got to go to some pretty out there places usually on our own. And I also love fashion, I know you do too, often we hummed into work wearing the same clothes.
MS: We did have to text this morning to make sure we weren't wearing the same thing.
LA: Which one could think is charming but actually might be troubling.
MS: Can you imagine?
LA: Mortifying. And sometimes I feel like people think there isn't a place for both, you can't be out in hiking in the redwoods and also be wearing a red lip, that the two things can't exist together. And I actually find that really annoying because I think because I love to dress up, I love wearing heels, I have a lot of people who always tell me that I am not that adventurous and I'm like, "I'm sorry, did you hike through Patagonia alone? Please show me the photos because I know I did." So seeing Charlotte out there just being her I think is fabulous.
Charlotte Simpson: It does give you this kind of like a Rick Steves or somebody or Samantha Brown kind of feeling like, all right, I need to really be knowledgeable about this place because people are going to be asking questions and I can't just be over here taking a bunch of pretty pictures of things, I've got to have a little something to say with it, I'll be writing captions. So many of my friends are still married and in a way they don't see themselves having the need to travel alone or wanting, just like I never wanted to travel alone. It wasn't even about not wanting to, it just didn't occur to me as a wife to travel alone.
And as a matter of fact, the first trip my daughter and I did together when we went to Morocco at Christmas and there were two ladies who were alone and I would ask them, and I feel bad now for asking with the tone that I used, but I was like, "why are you alone and it's Christmas?" Because I just couldn't understand. As a matter of fact, just the other day, a former coworker, well, anyhow, the other day she announces that she's retiring from teaching at 55 and I'm like, what? I couldn't believe it. And she's always saying how inspiring my pictures are and she just had no idea I loved travel so much, and I do feel part of it is just actually even after this last year that people look at their lives a little differently. And she's single, she's always been single, and I think she just feels like, there's a whole big out there and I am just going to just even try solo travel, I really think she's going to try solo.
LA: That was a clip from Charlotte Simpson or traveling back widow when she was on our show.
MS: It makes me think about someone else on the list, Katia Barros is the founder of Farm Rio, and I was so excited to have on here because I lived in Rio for a year after I graduated college and I remember farm stores being like just, they have these beautiful maxi dresses that are bright, punchy colors and maxi floral prints. She's been doing this for 25 years, so now she's honoring 25 years of Farm Rio, she's expanding to all these other countries around the world and she's also not just making beach clothes anymore, she's adapting to the different places that the brand is expanding.
They launched a ski collection that's like, it is the snow suits, but with rainbow stripes, there are ski pants that have two cans on them, these gigantic two can prints and it's so lively and so fun. And again, it embodies that, it's like you can be going down a black diamond and still looking amazing, and I love that ethos, it's definitely relatable to us.
LA: And the domain of adventure and travel is always being dominated by the same type of people who are dressing and looking a similar way. And it's like, no, you can be in your very flamboyant printed ski suit and be the best skier on the slope.
MS: And I think she said something really interesting when I interviewed her for this about how travel gives you or vacation gives you permission to do whatever you want. And I think that idea is also really important for women that it's like we have so many different rules and expectations put on us, and I do think travel lets you step out of that a bit, it lets you maybe dress more boldly than you would at home, you figure you don't know as many people. You're up for trying something that you maybe wouldn't usually, you'll go somewhere alone, you'll do these things, you say yes to all these different experiences. And so I think, again, it's more than just fashion and clothing, it's about the way that we travel and that is so representative to me of how women travel right now.
LA: You introduced Farm Rio to me a few years ago and I had no knowledge of it. And when you were talking about when giving yourself permission to experiment a bit more and that can often be with style, what is it about Farm Rio that was embodying Brazil for you and what you were discovering that you loved about Brazil?
MS: At the time, first of all, I was a pretty broke English teacher, so I think I also just was like, God, this is so glamorous and I want it all and I can't have it all. But I think when Farm Rio opened their first store outside of Brazil, it was here in New York in 2019 I think, and the store, probably some mixed reactions, but it actually had sand on the floor like you walked into a beach. Do you remember this?
LA: I do remember that, and I'm just thinking, what an innocent time before the pandemic where I walked into a store and I was like, they have sand on the ground, it's incredible.
MS: Something that was also really fun for me, they were making these T-shirts that had really specific resilience snacks that you are sold on the beach in Rio. So they had a big graphic of these Globo, I don't even know how to describe them, like biscuits or crackers, and I don't think they have a lot of flavor, but people love them and they're just like. I feel like my Brazilian friends, it is childhood to them to see those crackers, and so the fact that they had all these people in New York who probably have never had a Globo little crisp like wearing these big shirts, you feel something when you see it and recognize it, and it teaches other people about the culture.
LA: Staying in South America, another person who's exporting their culture is the Colombian singer, Kali Uchis, someone that you really wanted to be featured on the list and I think is a wonderful, wonderful fit and I love her music. What's she doing with Colombian music and Colombian culture that's resonating here in the US and what dialogue is she creating?
MS: Everyone is listening to reggaeton now, I think it's just at this fever pitch moment. What's interesting about Kali is she grew up in Virginia, but to Colombian parents, so she's looking back now on the immigrant experience of her parents, where she came from. And I think along the way, she's bringing all these Colombian sounds to people in the US and I think I like to imagine that when people go to Columbia where her parents are from that they will feel like something's familiar because they've listened to Kali Uchis's music, and I love that.
LA: A lot of these women on this list are people that we've been following for some time, but there are different levels of known. I think listeners will be really familiar with a few of the names, but there'll also be lots of people to discover on this list. There's common ground, travel's the thing that ties them together, but ultimately, their life experiences and their backgrounds are incredibly different.
MS: Yeah, I honestly am looking at it and I can't even group them because last year we had the people working in design, the people working with the shows, and it's just so varied this year. I think readers might see some names and know those people from work they do, I'm thinking of Quannah Chasinghorse who has been on the cover of Vogue, she's a model, and I think people might at first be curious how we're tying it to travel, and again, we then get into her environmental activism, all these other things. And I hope that people will realize how big a part of travel all these conversations are right now, like Quannah Chasinghorse is such an activist for indigenous rights, climate, land and water rights, she's been at the forefront of protests across the country for fighting for indigenous lands.
LA: There are people who were driving the conversation for travelers, and this is not just in America, Quannah is from Alaska, so she is speaking to indigenous land rights in the US. But all across the travel space in Canada and in Australia, in Chile, there are all these countries that are wrestling with their history and the land and whose land it belongs to, and that ties into the conversation of travel.
MS: I think the way you put that into practice is, figure out whose land you're on, don't assume they're no longer there. Different countries have marks of authenticity that they use to represent like this is an indigenous tourism experience led by indigenous people probably owned by indigenous operators, and you'll find that in Canada, you will find that in Sweden.
LA: Also, imagine the money that you are spending on the experience is going to the right people. Back in North America, Emily Henry, author of books like Beach Read, People on Vacation, she has sold millions of copies for her romance novels that people are obsessed with.
MS: If you've walked through a Hudson News and not seen everyone holding one, I don't know where you've been.
LA: It's a Hudson News, it's the Sun Lounges, she's making so much money off writing beach reads, but she does it with a wink-wink because, again, that first book that really bought her into prominence was called Beach Read. She's writing a genre that doesn't always get taken particularly seriously, and often women are pigeonholed into writing, but she's doing it really well because I think it gets dismissed a lot.
MS: I just think it's so common that women do something and then it's some art form and it's seen as lean stream or somehow not as deserving of praise. And it's like, if she is selling more books at every single airport and every single bookstore and on everywhere online selling so many more books about people on vacation than anyone else, she's doing something right and something else none of the men are doing.
LA: She sold 6 million copies last year alone, in a publishing industry in 2023, 2024, that's quite rare.
MS: She's speaking to an experience I have as a woman falling in love with people on vacation or flings and she knows how to do it in a way that people really enjoy, she's very good at it, and people have fun, they enjoy her work.
LA: The world's particularly heavy right now, and sometimes you do just want to escape, just immerse yourself in it, and I think it's fine to have fun and be silly in that often, for whatever reason, we don't grant ourselves or others that joy sometimes.
MS: Definitely.
LA: After the break, how the power list is inspiring mine and Megan's travels for the year. Regardless of where you are listening right now, all of Conde Nast Travelers markets are sharing this list. So Conde Nast Traveler India, Conde Nast Traveler Spain, UK, Conde Nast Traveler Middle East, all of the markets are publishing this list on their websites, and I think that really speaks to how much of the world we've attempted to bring into this. And also it just makes me want to travel, it makes me want to go and experience a bunch of the stuff that these women are talking about or are creating. Where do you want to go and for whose work?
MS: I also interviewed Laila Gohar and I want to go see-
LA: Wait, who's Laila Gohar for the uninitiated?
MS: ... She's an artist, she does these very surreal food installations. She made these gigantic cakes that were in a garden in a hotel in Paris and it just looks almost a little Alice Wonderland-y, but gorgeous, just really, it's like I want to go see a hotel that has one of her installations. I also think about Aditi Dugar, who's a chef in India, she has a restaurant called Masque that just sounds incredible and they're doing these different pop-up experiences around the country.
LA: Well, and she is quite extraordinary, to actually say this out loud, but she was the first woman to be in the 50 best restaurants in Asia list, that's 50 in one list and she was the first woman, that list comes out every year, that's wild.
MS: And I think what's so cool is, you talked about how we've been following these women, she started this work a long time ago, but it really is coming to a head now. I also think Anomien Smith who does really sustainable, really integrated in the natural world like Safari Camp design, she designed Camp Sarika at Amangiri in Utah, send me there immediately, please, I would love that.
LA: And you distract me with your lip phone.
MS: Sorry.
LA: Stop playing with the lip phone.
MS: Excited.
LA: I can't wait to just toast to ourselves and also toast to the women on this list. There are a few points when we thought we wouldn't get it out of the door when we were negotiating access to interview 15 people in 15 different places in the world, which is no small feat, but we did it in the end, didn't we?
MS: And then it comes out and it looks amazing, and there are these photos and videos of the women featured all around the world and I immediately forget about that and I'm just excited that it's there.
LA: And it's so substantial, so if you haven't had time to read it yet, go on to womenwhotravel.com, follow us on Instagram, sign up for our newsletters, and really dive into each of these 15 profiles, I think you'll discover some amazing people and their stories.
Next week, an author and her daughter tells stories of Cambodia and its noodles and how food came to be an act of resistance. I'm LA, and you can find me on Instagram @lale_hannah. Our engineers are Jake Lummus, Nick Pitman, and James Yost. The show's mixed by Amar Lal, Jude Kampfner from Corporation for Independent Media is our producer, Chris Bannon is Conde Nast head of Global Audio. See you next week.